Simon: G’day guys, and welcome to another episode of The Mindful Men Podcast. I’m your host, Simon Rinne, and today we’re getting mindful about what it’s like living with Tourette Syndrome.

Simon: And joining me for today’s discussion, I’ve got Seamus Evans from the sunny coast here. How you going Seamus?

Seamus: Hello. I’m so good. Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate jumping on and what a great idea for a podcast and the work do you do. So, mate hat off to you,

Working in Breakfast Radio

Simon: Mate, I’m really pumped. we’re talking off air that you’ve been blasting my radio speakers in the car, in morning breakfast radio show up here on the coast, and I love it. we’re going to talk a bit about your career in the media, but before we do, I’ll introduce you as an ambassador for Tourette Syndrome as Association of Australia. You’re a keynote speaker, obviously a radio host, TV presenter, and a standup comedian as well.

Seamus: yeah, I’ve been an ambassador now for Tourette Syndrome Association, Australia for about two years now. And yeah, the work that I do there is really, really rewarding. And I’ve been hosting the Sea FM breaky show now on the Sunny coast for about just over two months, I think. So, I’m still fresh. I’m still a baby.

Simon: every morning we listen to both the birthday balls and the under the pump kids.

 I love it how Jules always picks you up me and my son laugh at, as we go into school. So, it’s a really good morning Breaky show. Yeah. But first I’d like to start off and finding out a bit more about you as a person and, did you grow up on the sunny coast or you from somewhere else?

Tell us a bit about those early days and then also what led you towards, a career in the media.

Seamus: So, I grew up in Brisbane, on the south side of Brisbane. And I went to all boy’s high school private school in Southbank there. And living with Tourette syndrome and A D H D and I was so disengaged in school.

I hated going to school. I was always getting into trouble, but I always had this knack for being the class clown, making the teachers laugh. So, when they were being angry, I would do some impersonations or whatever it was. And they always found it hard to get me into trouble because I’d make them laugh all the time.

So that kind of triggered this interest into working in the media. And I grew up watching I was addicted to television and I grew up watching Rove Live. Rove McManus. Yeah. Graham Kennedy, which is the old Australian, he’s the king of tv. And I just really used to watch it and be obsessed and do you remember the Eddie Murphy standup special delirious?

Simon: Oh yes, it’s one of my Favorites.

Seamus: I remember discovering that cause my, I had older brothers and I would find a V h s tape and watch it, and it was the funniest thing in the world. And I remember thinking, that’s what I want to do. I want to be that guy. Which then yeah, triggered this idolization, I guess, of wanting to be in the media.

Man, I couldn’t really do anything else. I failed school. So yeah, I that’s all I wanted. I just wanted to be a TV presenter, a radio host, a funny guy,

Simon: Yeah. And looking up to Eddie Murphy, was it delirious or raw, where he wore those really tight red pants

Seamus: that was delirious and in raw it was purple.

Simon: did you ever get a pair just for you?

Seamus: I, I used to wear some pretty outrageous stuff, but I’ve n I’ve never been someone to succumb to fashion. I’m the guy who slips into the background. Like, I’ll never step out of my comfort zone fashion wise, socially, and my personality, absolutely.

But it’s always like plain, plain clothes for me. I never, I never go too ludicrous.

Simon: Now I’m interested. I’ve never had a radio host on the show, and Brecky radio must be brutal for your body clock. Talk us through a bit about what that looks like for, for anyone who hasn’t experienced that themselves in their own careers.

Seamus: So, I’m up at 3 :45 in the morning every morning. But I’ve been doing breakfast radio now, I had two years off, but I think this is my seventh or eighth year. And I have been drunk and I’ve been sober and it’s so much easier doing it, not drinking. I’m, and I don’t mean 3:45 AM smacking open a beer, but I mean, on weekends and things, I used to party like a maniac and now I don’t.

And it’s so much easier to get up so early. When you’re not battling that four day hangover. But I’ll tell you what, the, the breakfast radio job is amazing. It’s really the rockstar role of the station. you are in there early, but you get to leave at, 9 :30, 10 o’clock, you’re at home.

You get to do what you want and it’s a lot of fun. But it comes with a lot of hard work leading up to that role. So, I, I had to sacrifice relationships, friendships, pay checks so much to move out into the middle of nowhere. I lived in Albury Wadonga. And when you’re living in Melbourne and Brisbane and Adelaide and you move to a small country town, not knowing anybody it’s a big adjustment.

And then I lived in Cairns for two years. And again, I moved away from family, away from friends. I was in relationships that I said no to, and these sorts of situations. So now when you’re at a role. On the Sunshine Coast, it is a real, every day I pinch myself living in Mooloolaba, going to work with amazing people and living in such an amazing city.

It’s a job that I do not take for granted and I have a lot of gratitude every single day because it’s, there’s a lot of sacrifice to get into this role and I love it.

Simon: Yeah, it makes it easier when the, the Queensland sunshine comes up at four o’clock in the morning. Particularly in summer.

Seamus: Yeah. There were days in Albury, I used to wake up and my face was freezing and I used to do the Ace Ventura thing because I’d, I’d be running late and I’d have to wind down the window and drive with my head out of the car. because I, I was like, I can’t wait for the windscreen to melt. I’ve got to go.

Simon: and aside from radio, you also, you’ve been on the telly and Totally Wild comes to mind.

And I grew up, watching Totally Wild back in the what, the nineties now, now I feel old saying that, but what was it like being on Totally Wild? I guess a staple of Australian tv.

Seamus: Totally wild was so much fun. Like I said, I failed school, so I really struggled in the researching things, reading and writing.

And then when I went to Totally Wild, that was my university because you had to write your own scripts, you had to research. I, and that’s where I fell in love with ecosystems and the wildlife and, learning the different pecking order of, apex predators all the way down to, the bilby.

And I used to ask every zookeeper. Whenever I did a story on an animal, I’d say, what is the reason for this animal? Cause every animal has a role to play. And I asked a zookeeper about a bilby, I said, what’s, what’s their role? Like, what, what’s the point of a bilby? And they were stumped. They’re like, geez, I’ve got no idea.

And they worked out. It was for foraging to help plants grow. And because that’s what they do. They dig and they constantly eat insects. So, they’re constantly, mulching up the ground. And I, I just fell in love with wildlife and animals and different adventures and so that was fun, man.

That was a real, I have had an amazing career and I feel like I’ve peaked too early. Like I’m only 32. I’ve hosted two television shows. I’ve been on three breakfast radio shows, keynote speaker around the country. I’m like, oh my gosh. Like I, I, I’ve hit a peak. I can’t go higher.

Simon: what’s next then? Have you thought about what you’re going to do for the next 30 years of your career?

Seamus: I tell you what, I love where I’m at now, and I’m definitely of the belief that nothing lasts forever. And I lost my radio job through Covid 19. We were made redundant and radio was my life. And I thought I was just going to keep doing that forever. And then I lost it.

And I remember thinking, oh, there’s, there is no such thing as forever. I feel as though gone are the days. If you get a job at 18 and then you retire at the same job at, 65. So jobs come and go, opportunities come and go. You just have to grab them at that moment. Now, I never expected to go back into radio.

 I’m still a keynote speaker and I still go to schools, businesses, conferences, and when Sea FM approached me and they said, oh, you want to do break your radio? I said, well, I’m doing pretty well on my keynote circuit and they said, well, no, we want you to keep doing it. And I thought, well, hang on, here’s an opportunity that doesn’t come around all the time and may not be here in a year’s time, so grab it by the balls, take it now and just go for as long as possible.

So, I could be doing this in 10 years or I could leave tomorrow. I don’t know, but who knows? I’m loving the journey.

Simon: it’s an exciting journey that you’ve got and the way you carry yourself, is so energetic as well, and it comes across both on the radio and in what we’re doing right now. And so, living with a condition like Tourette’s. I was reading up a bit about it, on your website a bit earlier and it all started around 10 years old, is that right?

Living with Tourette Syndrome

Seamus: no, 10 years old was when I was diagnosed, but I was actually born with it. So, Tourette syndrome. It lays dormant in your system until a traumatic event trigger it.

Now, when you hear trauma, you think the worst. It doesn’t necessarily have to be horrible, horrible. It, it, it can be as simple as a. A car horn beeping next to a baby. Like when you’re an infant and you hear a car horn for the first time and you’re a meter away from it, that is traumatic. So, we have a theory that when I was a baby, I had a body infection and was in hospital for two weeks, and that is a pretty traumatic thing for a baby to go through.

So, we have a theory that that’s what triggered my Tourette’s, but you are once, if you are born with it, you’ve got it and it lays dormant in your system.

Simon: so how did it affect you from a baby and did you notice it or did you feel like, oh, this is just me? Did anyone point it out to you? how did it show up for you in your childhood?

Seamus: So, when I was a baby, my sister called me Blinky Bill and Snuffaluffagus because I’d blink excessively and, sniff like that. And the way it started was when you are growing your hair and you’ve got fringe in your eyes and you flick your head to get rid of the fringe. Well, I was doing that, and then we went and got a haircut and my mum and I still did the flick.

And she goes, hang on a second. Why did you just flick your head then we, you don’t have hair in your eyes. And then there was a, it started peaking a bit more around that age, which was around that eight, nine years of age. And one day we were saying our prayers before sleep. And mom overheard me. And I said, oh, God, take these habits away from me, because I didn’t know what they were called. And I called them habits and I hated them. And so that broke my mom’s heart. And so, then she went down the going to a gp, getting a referral to a psychiatrist and a neurologist, and actually getting a proper diagnosis to be diagnosed with Tourette Syndrome.

But yeah, there was a, a, a big lead in of an influx of ticks, like fits like I, I couldn’t control grunting like that flicking my head and these uncontrollable movements that I couldn’t escape, causing a large frustration and temper tantrums and fits that led, towards that journey of, geez, something needs to be done.

Simon: Yeah. And what was it like at school though, before the diagnosis? were they supportive? Were you teased? how did that show up for you at school?

Seamus: I was definitely teased. And I, I don’t think a diagnosis really did anything to that. Kids are kids and they teased me before and after.

And when you’ve got Tourette’s, you’ve got a thing called rage. So, there’s a Tourette’s rage, a relation between someone having, outbursts of rage and their Tourette’s. And I would fight. I would, in primary school, I would solve my problems with fists. Took me a long time to learn that in fact my first day of high school, I walked in and went, Ooh, I can’t solve problems with my fists because I’m going to get beaten up. That guy’s massive. So that’s when I had to learn how to use my wit. But yeah, I’ll, I was copied and, and I always say in my keynote, when you’ve got something so visual, you are a sitting duck for the comments.

 as little as stop doing it, Seamus or Seamus, that’s annoying, or Seamus is sitting next to me. Those little things are a massive, massive buildup over a long period of time and yeah. Yeah. Growing up I didn’t have many friends as, as much as I do now anyway.

Simon: Yeah, it had me reflecting as you were telling that story about me developing obsessive compulsive disorder.

So, it was around eight years old and it was an event that triggered that as well. It’s something as simple as a student at school told me that, Simon, if you stop using your voice for more than a minute, you’re going to lose your voice forever. And I took that as a gospel and, and so I started performing, similar what I called habits as well, like humming to myself initially for two years, every minute old hum. Just the smallest note, just as check that my voice was there. But the difference, I guess, between my obsessive-compulsive disorder and what you’re saying with your Tourette’s is yours are so visual.

 Whereas mine was, I’ll, internalized. So, I would spend 24 7 going through my brain trying to check, check my voice was there, and then it grew up into different things around safety and security and, and so forth. But it is so diverse in, in how we experience conditions like this as well. Now you mentioned around ticks and how that shows up.

Are there different types of Tourette’s as well?

Seamus: Yeah, hugely. So, there are many different types of symptoms of Tourette’s. So, the typical Straightforward, in order to be diagnosed, you need a combination of vocal and physical ticks to be presented for one year. But in that, there’s Coprolalia, which is the swearing and profanity tick, which a lot of people know Tourette’s for, which funnily enough the Latin translation of Coprolalia means copro, meaning shit, Lalia meaning talk. So, it’s literally like shit talk, and that’s what it’s called. And then there’s Copropraxia, which is the visual, like flipping the bird and things like that. And then there’s palilalia, which is repeating your own sentences, Echolalia, which is repeating someone else’s, and there’s impulsions.

Now impulsions are the one that people get confused with bad behaviour all the time because impulsions could be. punching the person next to you, it could be throwing a pen across the room. It’s inconsistent. Whereas ticks are consistent. So, it’s the same repetitive movement, but an impulsion is random and a lot of people think you are just being a little shit.

They’re not. It’s actually, you know, that don’t push the big red button. We all get, don’t push a big red button. But the best way to explain Tourette’s is like everybody’s brain self regulates by firing off signals to the body. But everybody’s brain has a gate to stop the unwanted signals. And that’s don’t push a big red button.

We all know, no, no, no. Even though you want to, you shouldn’t. And there’s that filter. People with Tourette’s just have a weak or no gate. So those things fire through. So, with the impulsions and it’s, don’t push a big red button. Whoops. Too late. Already pushed it.

Tourette’s and mental health

Simon: so, once you got diagnosed, did that impact you psychologically? Did you experience depression or sadness, anger about it? How did you respond to that diagnosis?

Seamus: All the diagnosis did, which was a good thing, is it I stopped calling them habits and I called them ticks and I had an answer. So, when people would say, why do you keep doing that?

I had an answer. Oh, I’ve got Tourette syndrome. Outside of that, it didn’t really do much other than, yeah, just let me know okay, now I know what it is. Now people with Tourette’s, I believe are, oh, I’ve got to clarify this. They’re very, they’re high, they’re prone to depression, right? I think it’s around 65%.

So, my depression didn’t come till later. That was my depression came from when I left television. I quit totally wild and I wanted to pursue radio, and I experienced professional rejection. I was on my own. I came out of a relationship and I had no money and I didn’t know how to handle my mental health.

So, I crumbled. I went into a really dark space, couldn’t get out of bed, and I had to do everything in my power to improve my mental health. And the way I see mental health is like going to the gym, if you are. if you go to the gym for the first time in five years, it’s a long way to a six pack.

But if you go every single day, it’s just maintenance. So since then, I’ve put so much effort into managing my mental health and keeping mentally healthy. So, when I do go through those dark phases or major life crisis’s, I. Know what I’m in for. I’ve run that path before. I’ve climbed that mountain before and it’s not as hard as what it usually would be, but the depression, sorry to answer your question, a long way around no, the depression didn’t come till later.

It was more so feeling like I wasn’t good enough and I was a loser because I had this thing that made me different and I wasn’t a cool kid. But that I think everybody experiences that to some degree because everybody’s different. Everybody has insecurities and everyone to some degree faces adversity.

So that was mine. That was just my version.

Simon: Yeah. and did you start therapy? Is there a therapy for Tourette’s and how to learn how to manage it? How does that work?

Seamus: There is, and it’s called CBIT, cognitive Behavioural Intervention Therapy,

C B I T Now, it essentially, yeah, it’s, you’re learning how to redirect them. I had to learn that myself. And I learned that my first job in television was on toasted tv. And I got the job and the boss pulled me aside and he said, why do you keep ticking like that? And I said, oh, I’ve, I’ve got Tourette’s.

And he then kind of threatened, well, if that’s going to be a problem, we’ll just fire you and get someone else. So then that dangled this. Oh my gosh, I don’t want my Tourette’s to stand in the way of my dream job. Like I said before, growing up, watching Rove, watching Graham Kennedy, graham Norton, that’s what I wanted to be.

And now my Tourette’s were standing in the way. So, it gave me a reason to try and redirect them. And then I, over a course of about six months to a year, I learned how to redirect them into my body language, which is a management. It, once you do it once, it doesn’t mean that’s forever. You’ve got to learn constantly over time how to continue redoing it.

because it’s like if you put your foot on a bin to squash it down. The bottom of the bin could come out, because you’re putting pressure. So, it’s like that if you manage one tick, another one will pop up and you’re like, no, now I’ve got to manage that one. So, I had to learn a way to manage the ones that were the most debilitating and visually disruptive so I could work as a TV presenter without it being distracting for the, for the audience.

Simon: Yeah. Was it noticeable when you were on the camera Because I watched one of your YouTube clips and, you talk about having to manage the tick essentially, when the cameras start rolling, like how did you manage that through that kind of very visual style job, but also, I guess in the, in the audio version of radio as well.

How do you do that? How do you approach that work?

Managing the symptoms of Tourette Syndrome

Seamus: So, I think it first starts with a mindset. I made a clear decision that I will never let my Tourette’s control me. I will always control my Tourette’s, and that comes from on a day-to-day, tick basis, all the way to, my career and my life. So, I made a decision that.

Just because I have Tourette’s, it’ll never determine my future or, or my goals or at least trying. So, it came with that attitude. So, it started with, okay, ready? Okay, and 3, 2, 1, action. In the lead up to that I’d force, okay, I’m going to tick here and I’m not going to tick during the take. And so yeah, I would flick my hands, click my fingers, twitch my head, grunt all in the lead up.

And then during the take I would work out. Oh, where can I put this, Tick? Where can I, how can I do something with my body to scratch that itch? because the way, the best way to describe a tick is like an itch, right? An itchy fore arm. Subconsciously you’re going to scratch it. So, I had to work out ways, how can I scratch it without it being so visual?

And that was that redirecting. Side of things that I had to learn myself. Yeah. And with radio, sometimes I’ll blatantly tick on air because I, because I’m so public with my Tourette’s, I don’t care anymore. But a lot of the times, I’ll just turn the mic off. Mic back on

Simon: the beauty of radio.

I loved how you talked about how you’re so open and honest about it, because, when we live with a condition, whether it’s a mental illness or a disorder, or disability, for example, I do a lot of work in that space. It can be so shaming and it can make us revert inwards and kind of hide away from the world.

Have you experienced Both because in my personal journey, I’ve certainly experienced both. And it took me 20 years to open up to a doctor for the first time and say, I think something’s not quite right here. And then through the diagnosis process, oh, you’ve got O C D, depression and anxiety.

And then I kind of hid that for 10 years after that as well. And I went through therapy, but the only people that knew was my doctor and my therapist and my wife. So, for you I guess because it is so outward as well, your ticks, have you just run with it from the start or is it something that you’ve had to lean into as you’ve got older?

Seamus: Growing up every day was different. So, some days I would be more confident and blatantly say, yes, I’ve got Tourette’s and wear it like a badge of Honor. And other days I didn’t want to and I wanted to ignore it. I wanted to hide. I wanted to lie. But I found being upfront with it, it was easier to manage.

And once you say it was like if it’s a hard, it’s a hard one because it’s not something I would say straight off the bat when meeting someone, I wouldn’t say, my name’s Seamus and I’ve got Tourette’s. The only time I would say it is when they would notice it or would ask questions, and I would grow in my confidence to not hide it.

And I found. That, it’s like if you are boxing and you take their guard away, it’s easier there’s no defense. So, I’ve found that the more open and honest and upfront I was, the less I had to carry. So, if I said, yeah, I’ve got Tourette’s and brush it off as fast as I can, I don’t need to carry it anymore. And I noticed them, noticed my ticks, but it was over because they acknowledged it like, oh, that’s his Tourette’s.

And there was an answer to the question straight away. But the times where I ignore it and I wouldn’t tell them; I would watch their curiosity grow and grow and grow during the conversation. Does that make sense?

Simon: Absolutely. Because I remember a couple years ago, I experienced burnout, during the covid years living with mental illness for 30 plus years.

I worked in a full-time job that was really high demand. I was studying part-time to become a social worker. We had two kids and covid all in the same hot pot of mess. That was life a couple years ago for everyone as well, not just us. And I remember going back to work after my burnout because I took four to five months off of work to recover.

And it was painful. Like I’ve never experienced anything like it, even though I’ve lived with O C D depression, anxiety. The recovery from burnout was just something next level, and I, I felt this need to share my story and so I call it my unmasking, and it was just me just wearing it on my sleeve for the first time ever saying this is me.

And this is, I guess, where Mindful Men was born was through my burnout story. And it just felt a, it felt great just to get it off my chest and say, this is me, this is all of me. And I probably gave some people at my workplace and also now through social media, go, oh, that’s why Simon does this, this and this.

That’s why he thinks like this, that’s why he behaves like this. So, it felt really empowering from that perspective, but also relieving as well, and, and therapeutic because I could just share life as it was and not hide from it anymore. Cause I had this massive perfectionist wall up. Everything had to be perfect.

I had to manage everything perfectly otherwise, so, so other people wouldn’t know what’s going on. And then, then I could kind of feel normal. But the, the more and more I battled with that, I think that’s what led to the burnout because I had the bar up so high of, of perfectionism. And then eventually I stopped being able to reach that bar, and that’s when the world came down. And I felt like, I, I said to myself, you know what? It’s okay that I don’t live this perfect life anymore. It’s okay that people see my vulnerability. And in a way I hope it inspires other blokes out there to see their own vulnerabilities and, and talk about things as well.

So, I really love how you, you described that wearing it, as your confidence grows that you are, you’re more able to express it. And then just move on. It’s not holding you back anymore. It’s really good. I can imagine for other people that are living with Tourette’s, that’s probably the opposite.

And I guess in, in your work in your ambassador role with Tourette Syndrome association Australia, I imagine you’ve met some amazing people that are really struggling with it, so can you talk us through what is some of the examples that you’ve come across, and I guess how can your ambassador role really help to, to reframe, I guess, the way society looks at Tourette’s?

Living with Tourette’s Syndrome

Seamus: Well, What I have learned is that everybody living with Tourette’s is in a different stage of their journey. Some I know who aren’t ready to be confident in it.

Some I know aren’t ready to accept it, and some are just like me, whereas it doesn’t bother them like it used to. But everybody’s in their different stages and especially, not everybody has had it from a young age. I know people who got it at 30 years of age. So, they’ve lived a quote unquote normal life, hit 30, developed Tourette’s, and, they’re only 32, so they’ve only got two years of having to deal with that social backlash.

Whereas I’ve been dealing with it for 32 years. So, everybody’s in a different stage. And, my work is I’ve only got really one goal as an ambassador for Tourette Syndrome Association Australia. It’s to tell the kids living with Tourette’s, just, just because you have Tourette’s, it doesn’t determine your future.

That’s my biggest, and, and that goes outside of Tourette’s. That goes with every, everyone. I hate the idea of someone limiting their own potential, or not even letting themself strive to obtain their goals. Because of their self-appointed setback. And so, I, I just really try and make life easier on a day-to-day basis for people living with Tourette’s because I know so many who are arrested regularly because police officers automatically assume they’re on ice or they’re crazy, they’re being kicked out of class.

The ambulance paramedics dunno how to treat a tick attack. And the biggest one is the social awareness. if someone with coprolalia starts swearing their head off in public, people turn around and go, how dare you? That’s so rude. you’re a horrible human. Whereas they’re not.

It’s just their condition. And I remember the first time I, and I’m going to swear here, I’m going to swear. The first time I went to a Tourette’s camp, it was the first time ever meeting anyone with Tourette’s. And there was this giant hall where I was meant to go in and this kid turned a corner and goes, fuck is your stupid cunt?

Oh, sorry, what’s your name? And I was like, Like I was like, what have I walked into? And when you meet someone like that, you think your horrible person. Now that person who did it to me, his name is Vince, and he’s the nicest kid, the biggest sweetheart. And their instant reaction is not that they’re a sweetheart, it’s that they’re a little jerk.

And so, I just want to do everything in my power with my YouTube channel and with my work inside the community with Tourette’s, it’s to make their lives easier. because I, it’s very rewarding for me. And it’s like looking after the little 10-year-old Seamus.

Simon: Yeah. What was it like meeting someone else with Tourette’s for the first time?

Cause I know for me they call O C D a silent condition because it is kept from the dark and away from things. And it wasn’t until four or five years ago that I discovered an O C D community. And that was through social media.

So, like what was it like for you to, to find someone else out there who was going through, similar to what you were going through?

Seamus: Really weird. Because my whole life I was the only one with Tourette’s. And because I changed my attitude Towards Tourette’s, and I wore it like a badge.

Well, that badge isn’t very impressive when 20 other people have that badge. So, there was this weird sense of, oh, but I’m meant to be the only one with Tourette’s. It was weird. It was like Tourette’s I wore for so long as this sense of identity and what made me different and hanging around all people with Tourette’s, I’m like, no, I’m not different, because I found I fell in love with being different, and that was my identity of being different because of my Tourette’s.

And I was like, oh, now I’m just want to like one of you guys. But it’s changed now. My mindset, whenever I go to hang out with people, Tourette’s is my mindset is I’m here to, I’m here for you and I’m here to get to know you and help you. So yeah, it was interesting first meeting people cause I’m like, oh, I’m not different anymore.

Medication, ADHD and Tourette’s

Simon: Yeah, absolutely. And to add to this, you also live with A D H D, is that right?

Seamus: Yes. ADHD.

Simon: Yeah. So how does that all mesh into one, how do you manage both conditions and, and do they play on each other? Do you notice there’s sometimes when one’s more prevalent than the other, or do they kind of both just come in in their weird, in wonderful ways?

Seamus: So underneath the neurodiverse umbrella, there are, I hate this word, but there are comorbidities, I just call them conditions. But underneath the Tourette’s umbrella, its OCD, ADHD, ODD, depression, anxiety, and a few others, but so they’re very closely related. And I have actually never been medicated for my A D H D until recently when, because A D H D and Tourette’s are so closely related, a lot of the people with Tourette’s are on meds.

And so, I wanted to experience what they’re experiencing and so I put myself on meds just to go through it and I didn’t like it. I, I mean, I have been living with my brain as it is for 32 years, and I found when I started taking meds, it was chemically altering it and I felt a little different. So, it’s like if you don’t wear underpants for 30 years and then you start wearing underpants, it’s going to feel weird.

I’m restricted, let the boys hang out. So that’s, that’s how I felt. And so, I ended up stopping it. But it’s interesting when a lot of people ask me about A D H D, and I think, I don’t know any different, that’s how my brain was born. So, I don’t know, actually, no. When I was taking the meds and I was able to concentrate for four or five hours at a time, I remember thinking, oh, this is how normal people are.

And, and now going back off ’em, I’m like, ah. So, there is a difference because the meds, there’s no question. They do work. They absolutely work.

Simon: Yeah. On the flip side of that, has there been anything that you’ve done to self-medicate self-regulate, for a long-time alcohol for me was something to make me feel more normal like, particularly when I’m stressed.

My O C D is a lot worse than when I’m relaxed and calm and so forth. So, it could be a, a six beer at night session on the couch. Just me watching telly or something like that. Did you find anything like that? Alcohol, drugs or something else that you used as a self-care kind of coping strategy?

Using Alcohol as a coping mechanism

Seamus: Hugely. Alcohol was a big one for me. Yeah, I’d party a lot on weekends, a lot of social, and a lot of sex. So, I would, I would always find that I remember, and I was actually talking about this with a friend of mine being a child. The girls at school hated me. And so, when I got older, I felt like I was trying to reward that little kid by trying to essentially sleep with as many girls as I possibly could, which was actually a really, that really triggered my depression a lot as well because it was this weird vicious cycle of trying to find comfort, trying to reward myself and, feel loved by strangers. And even though on the surface it was this quick fix, dopamine release, it was actually a really bad symptom of, poor mental health.

And it took me many years to work out that it was really destructive behaviour. But yeah, absolutely. Alcohol was a big one. Drinking myself to oblivion, every night, even on radio years ago, I would finish, I’d get off air, I’d go home, I’d smack six beers, drink a bottle of scotch, and pop two Valiums and go to bed by, six o’clock at night, wake up four o’clock, ready to go.

And that became a regular behaviour. And, that’s what I said right at the beginning, I’ve done radio. Sober and I’ve done it not sober and it’s 10 times easier sober.

Simon: Absolutely. So, knowing what you know now about life and, and Tourette’s, ADHD and it all intertwined into now you’re into your thirties, if you could go back and tell, your youngest self-something what would you tell them?

 What’s, some advice you’d give to your younger self?

Get your priorities straight

Seamus: I have thought about this and I’ve answered this many times and I think it changes every time. The advice I would like to say to myself is, just go for it. But I have done that in all of my life.

Anything I’ve, I’ve wanted to do, I’ve gone with it at a hundred percent, I think it would be Watch what you prioritize. So, to go on from what I said there before about the sex, I used to prioritize that because I wanted to get this ego kick, wanting people to love me and I, my priorities were wrong and for a very long time, I prioritized my career over relationships.

And what happened? I got to 30 singles unemployed on the dole living at my parents. And I remember thinking my priorities have been wrong for the past 10 years. So, I think it would be, and knowing what I said earlier about opportunities, they come and they go and they never last forever. Get your priorities straight.

What is most important? And really at the end of the day, it’s relationships. it’s having good connections with your family, with your parents, with your friends, and being able to sit in the moment. And that’s one of the biggest things I still struggle with to this day, is sitting in the moment, I might be sitting on the beach taking in this beautiful scenery, but my mind’s like, oh, but next year I’ve got to do this and I’ve got to try and obtain this goal and I’ve got to do that.

And it’s like, woo, man, relax. You could die in the car accident on the way home. Take it easy. Sit in the moment and enjoy because otherwise, what’s the point of working your ass off if you can’t rest on your loyal?

Simon: that’s very mindful of you given we’re on the Mindful Men podcast. Is, that sitting in the moment? And I find it’s very helpful for a range of conditions. Not just Tourette’s, not just OCD, just I think we are too hard on ourselves. trying to be better. This, I guess, hustle culture comes into it a little bit, trying to do more, be available 24 7, but sometimes when we sit back and just live in that moment, Things also wash away and we can just feel that calmness and so forth.

So fantastic point there. I love that you brought up some mindfulness in The Mindful Men Podcast. Thank you so much. Now thinking about your own story and, and I guess if there’s somebody out there listening to this, maybe they, they haven’t been diagnosed yet with Tourette’s or maybe they’ve had a recent diagnosis and they’re not sure where to turn to help.

Where are some places that they can go to get some information or get some therapy? where can you steer them in the right direction?

Where to get support for Tourette Syndrome

Seamus: Specifically for Tourette’s, it’s tourette.org.au. There are so many different materials there that you can download free information and also support groups that you can become a part of.

I would also recommend and a lot of people get this wrong. Psychologist for your emotions, psychiatrist for your brain wiring and neurologist for, again, the psychiatrist and neurology kind of have quite similar, but I would say get the right psychologist, psychiatrist if you want drugs, psychologist if you want to help manage your emotions.

 And especially with A D H D. It’s hard to regulate your emotions and you might blow your lid over spilled milk and not care if you, if your family member dies. It’s a weird juxtaposition of, if I can’t find a park at the shopping centres, I blow my lid. I’m like, there’s is bullshit of driving home.

I, but, if I lost my job tomorrow, I wouldn’t care. So, it’s this weird thing and that I, that’s what I need help with, with my psychologist. So, I would highly say, lose the ego, go and speak to a professional. Absolutely.

Simon: Yeah. How would someone who hasn’t been to one of those kinds of therapists before, find someone like that?

Is it about doing a bit of, interviewing the psychologist or psychiatrist about their experience with Tourette’s? Or how did you approach that?

Seamus: That’s a really good question. And that the hard thing is with psychology is it’s like dating. you’ve got to find the right one for you.

And, and it took me years, it took me years to get the right psychologist. I had a few psychologists try and reject me because my problems were neurological weren’t psychological, but I hated that answer. I was like, that’s bullshit. I’m still a human that has feelings and emotions, so that’s ridiculous.

It’s just trial and error. It’s the same as. When it comes to finances, it’s the same as, working out. You’ve just got to do it. You’ve got to hit the ground; you’ve got to have it go. You’re going to lose, but you’re going to win. And the longer you do it, you’re going to win over a long period of time. So, you just have to, you just have to make that phone call, pick up your guts and go for it.

Simon: Yeah, I love that. Cause it took me, yeah, several attempts to find the right fits for me. And now I’ve got, a select few that I will go to if I need help. And, they’re experiencing both mindfulness because I really love the mindfulness on my journey, but also O C D specific when I need that help with the O C D I find a lot of people can deal with the depression, anxiety, but not so much the O C D, which for a long time I didn’t try to treat, I tried to, treat everything else, but what I found was when I started treating the O C D.

The depression and anxiety, they kind of fell into place as well. So that can be useful, finding those people that do specialize in certain conditions.

Seamus: Yeah. So, one of the big things that I learned was following on from what you said, my moods will trigger Tourette’s, my moods will trigger Tourette’s.

So instead of trying to. Fix the tick, I would fix the mood. So, if I’d go, oh, hang on, I’m ticking more, I’m tired. Okay, have a nap, oh, I’m, I’m angry, I’m anxious, and I’d cater to the mood and the feeling, and then the ticks would reduce.

Simon: Yeah, absolutely. I, I guess I get similar when I’m drinking too much.

 I always say to myself, why am I drinking? What’s the underlying thing? Am I stressed? Am I anxious about something? What am I doing in my personal life to, to exacerbate this? Cause it’s something I really do notice when I’m drinking a lot as opposed to the just the old special occasion. But yeah, when it’s becomes like a middle of the week type thing, I start to question myself as well. Seamus, I really enjoyed this conversation. You bring a lot of liveliness to a, to a podcast, so I really thank you for coming on and I appreciate that you have probably been up very early today as well with the, with the radio show.

So, a couple more questions and I’ll let you go. I’d love for you to plug where people can find you, give us a bit of an idea about the type of keynote speaking you do. I’d be really keen to share that with the community as well.

How to connect with Seamus

Seamus: Yeah, so my, the keynote that I am most popular for is called Turning a Flaw into a Superpower, and that’s where I share my triumphant journey, overcoming the challenges associated with Tourette’s, A D H D, failing school to then pursue a career as a television presenter and radio announcer. And in that, I cover overcoming adversities and building resilience and how to find that confidence internally.

And, and, and my website is SEAMUS, so Seamusevans.com. And also, I’m putting a lot of energy into YouTube because that, to me, that’s more international than other social media forms. And that documents my journey living with Tourette’s and also me just trying to have some fun. So, I interview a lot of people who have Tourette’s.

In fact, my last video was with a guy at a gym in Maroochydore at Snap Fitness. And he had Tourette’s as well. And I’ve got a rule I never go up to someone I notice Tourette’s and say, oh, you’ve got Tourette’s. because I don’t know where they’re at in their journey. But he actually came to me and said, oh, I’ve got it too.

And I was the first one he’d ever met. So, we did a workout video recently and that was a bit of fun. So, Seamus Evans on YouTube, Seamusevans.com on the internet.

Simon: Awesome. We’ll have the links in the show notes so people can access them pretty easily. The last question I’d like to ask all my guests is to plug something that makes you feel good.

So, it doesn’t have to be anything to do with what we’ve been talking about, but something that maybe you’re watching or listening or reading or something that you’re enjoying at the moment to, share with the community as well.

Seamus’ Feel-Good Plug

Seamus: I love the podcast Smart Less, and I’m watching succession. And I absolutely love it.

You know what else? I’m actually I’m listening to an audiobook Funnily enough, I work in radio, but I don’t like listening to music. And I will say this is so random, but I’m obsessed with mafia and I actually am listening to I’ll make you an offer you can’t refuse by Michael Franzese, and he’s a mafia guy who left the mafia.

So that’s really interesting and I love it and I’m obsessed with the mafia. There you go.

Simon: We’ll put that in the show notes as well so people can check that out for themselves. But Seamus, thanks so much for coming on, getting, vulnerable and mindful with me on the Mindful Men Podcast.

I really have appreciated your time and, keen to keep watching you on YouTube as well. I’m really happy that you’ve come on and shared your journey with me too.

Seamus: Thank you so much for having me. I really, really appreciate it.

And I mean, what I said at the very beginning, I think this is a great conversation you’re having because so many men are too scared to have it. So, thank you so much for being a conversation starter.